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Greetings:

Thank you for your input, comments and suggestions! I seem to continuously mull them over in my mind especially when my “better half” is talking to me about such mundane matters as my kid’s up-coming wedding, the irate driver whom I just unknowingly cut off, etc. But, what can be more important than building my first boat, a sailboat at that?!

My need to consult both Instant Boats (featuring building the Teal) and the Surf’s “Building Directions” has got me a bit ahead of myself. Case in point: I neglected to build/install the Surf’s Mast Step and Mast Thwart before gluing/nailing on the bottom! Step #7 (for both boats) describes installing the chine logs, but then the departure in building steps begins.

Teal: Step #8 - describes fitting and nailing/gluing the bottom to the chine logs (I’ve done this). Step #9 - fiberglass taping of the chine logs (I was about to do this next). Then comes steps #10 - installing the shoe, and #11 – making/installing the mast step and partner.

Surf Directions: Step #8 – cut out bottom sheets; # 9 - butt strap bottom sheets together; # 10 – make/install the Mast Step ( haven’t done yet); #11 – build/install Mast Heal Thwart (also haven’t done). Following Step #11, there’s a long note in parentheses which describes (almost as an afterthought) several important steps including, “clean up bevel of chine logs and side plywood”, line up bulkhead transom, etc. center lines, and finally, “glue/nail bottom in place” (which following the Teal’s building instructions, I’ve already done).

So, I've skipped the Mast Step and Mast Thwart steps! Not a big problem; I'm just a little out of sequence. I caught this departure from the Surf’s “Directions” because I was wondering about permanently installing the Mast Step. In addition to being screwed to the For’d bulkhead, shouldn’t it also be nailed/glued to the bottom? If so, how could I do that if I’ve already fiberglassed the bottom? So, I went back to Instant Boats and looked up the Teal’s Mast Step. It’s made from a piece of 3/8” plywood, 7” square, mounted on two 1½” x 7” supports (Surf’s Mast Step is very different, but it's fitted to rest on the bottom). However, the Teal’s Mast Step is glued and “fastened to the outside with 1¼” nails”. So, it’s nailed through the bottom. Returning to my original question, shouldn’t the Surf’s Mast Step be nailed through the bottom?

So, next (for me) is to make and install the Mast Step and the Mast Thwart. I’d rather do a bit of carpentry than fiberglass anyways, plus getting the Mast Thwart to fit just right will be a bit of a challenge (and interesting). But, soon enough, I’ll have to install the Mast Step. Should I nail that sucker through the bottom or just rely of screwing it to the bulkhead?

One more thought. We’ve got 5 pages (and counting) of my question and your comments re: building the Surf. Any way we can organize and memorialize them for the next amateur boat builder taking on the Surf?

Craig

Hi Craig,

A couple of thoughts...

* The mast step and partner undergo considerable stresses, so I would secure as prescribed. (I'd also would use thickened epoxy as an adhesive.) If you want to nail up through the bottom using ring nails, I see no harm. But just keep in mind that you're dealing with 1/4" ply for the bottom, so a good adhesive job is important.

* As for 'organizing and memorializing' this thread... Hmmm... Your idea certainly has merit, but I see several problems:
~ What you're talking about boils down to editing, and speaking as a syndicated writer who used to be an editor, I can tell you that editing is a tricky, cooperative effort. (What do we leave out? What do we stress? What do we embellish?)
~ If we do this for one boat, it would be tempting to take on all the popular designs: Teal, Diablo, Nymph, Gypsy, etc... Duckworks has this sort of organized ongoing log of builds, but that is a ton of work.
~ In general, between the book, the plans, this forum, and calling Dennis directly, IMHO, building any of these Instant Boats is a very 'doable' proposition.

Alan

Craig,
I don't have the full size plans for Surf, so I'm only looking at the small drawing in "Instant Boats', and may be incorrect.
Surf has a central keel, running the length of the bottom. My suggestion would be to drive screws through the bottom and into the mast step, keeping the screws in the area that will be covered by the keel. You have options as to how you wish to attach the keel and runners, but any method should seal any screw heads driven through the bottom, and your new fiberglass.

I don't see that you have any problem or have made any mistakes in the sequence that would prove harmful.

Hello:

The mast step, as per Philip Bolger's plans, is 3/4" stock, and rests on the 1/4" plywood bottom; however, the shoe, made from 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" stock, runs down the center of the boat, from the cutwater to the transom, and thus also supports the mast step.

I think it's a good idea to thicken up the mast step a bit; I have some 5/4 mahogany lying around which would make it an inch thick. The plans specify the mast step to be screwed from the back of the For'd Bulkhead, and I'll glue/screw it from the bottom too (i.e., through the plywood).

At Mertons (the fiberglass/epoxy store in Spfld. MA), they said to fiberglass the bottom, then install the shoe and skids. They recommended I glop them up w/ Sikaflex Marine Adhesive Sealant before screwing them in place from inside. So, that is the plan.

Memorializing my questions, issues, problems, etc. plus your guidance and suggestions and support would be sort of a "living document". Instant Boats was written in the mid 1970's (?), and the plans for the Surf have to be older than that. Building materials have changed since then, e.g., Dynamite siad to use spruce 2 x 4's for mast, spar, chines and gunwales. I couldn't find any suitable spruce in all of Western MA (too many knots plus inherent stresses released when ripped). Bolger's Building Plans stipulate Douglas Fir for the mast and spar. Maybe Doug Fir was common enough 40 years ago, but it isn't now unless you pay a premium for 1 x 4 DF T&G flooring (beautiful stuff - nice straight grain, no knots), but you have to rip off the T and the G, then glue them up into a mast and a spar. Another example, the availability of some sizes of copper nails has changed. On the other hand, epoxy resin is better than ever.

Well, I went into this as a rank amateur (still am) and I have a lot of pictures plus your comments, suggestions, support, etc. I willing to take a shot at putting something together, not as a "bible" on how to build the Surf, but some guidance.

Craig

Hi Craig,

Thoughts...

* If you want to stiffen up the the step a bit, I don't see great harm... Just be sure to take into account the angle of the hole...

* As for the shoe and skid... I agree with Mertons about fiberglassing first... When I built the Teal, I used 3M 5200 to secure the shoe -- IMHO that was a huge mistake. I found it to be very messy. I found epoxy to be much easier to work, but it is forever... Perhaps the Sikaflex is better?

* I believe both Paul and I have spoken to the methods of attaching the skids... Not much to add on my end...

* 'Instant Boats' was first published in 1979. (I bought my now tattered first edition back then and never looked back.)

* As for material availability, yeah, that's always been a problem. Back in the day, I had to use knotty stuff and had to sister the mast. Nowadays, I think the materials are okay, and the pressure treated stuff seems to be pretty good. To be honest, when it came to the spar, I ended up going to a local sawmill and bribed the operator with a case of beer for some choice lumber. (He didn't drink it on the job!) Nails? I had a hard time finding the copper nails, but longer ones can always be cut down or even screws can be used and "sawzall'ed" off so long as the shank isn't too long.

* I think a build diary is a cool idea... Just understand that sometimes there are umpteen ways to do something, and opinions will differ... Also there are all kinds of formats you can present your experience in... Here's a Diablo build done via YouTube... I wouldn't relate my experience this way, but still interesting... http://youtu.be/vo5RbS8gIVQ

Alan

So, I had a really great idea about how to build a simple, but sturdy pop-up rudder; but I don't know. I've started making it; so far it weighs ~17 lbs. Would a 20 lb rudder be over-the-top for 150 Instant Boat?

Craig

Hi Craig,

Can you post some pics of what you've built so far? If need be, some drawings (even crude ones) might help too..

Alan

hello:

Been busy. I finished fiber glassing the Surf's bottom, including taping the chine logs. Came out pretty well. Despite recessing the chines by 1/16", the outer tape seam is quite visible (no big deal). An 1/16 of an inch recess wasn't enough, especially when adding the 6 oz. cloth to the bottom. Might have beet better to fatten out the chines (and gunwales?) to 1" which would have allowed a 1/8" recess. An 1/8' recess won't work w/ 3/4" chines. As it was, the tips of the 7/8" bronze nails used to nail on the chines (after they were glued/clamped) were popping through. nailing on an angle solved that problem.

Rudder problems - still want a pop-up. Will detail rudder disaster to date tomorrow.

Hi Craig,

Thoughts...

I've heard of people recessing for tape etc... Considered it myself... First, I reached the point that, for me, it wasn't worth the hassle. Then I decided, if I really cared about the finish, I'd sand the edge down to a nice flair so that the tape would blend into the panel. Third, I started sanding to a flair and then use fairing compound to make for a truly flawless side to bottom transfer. And it was gorgeous until the boat got used...

I spent days making that showroom finish only to take it to the beach and have it scratched in a matter of just a few uses. I for one have given up on the Cadillac finish. Yeah, I still sand down the edges of the tape a little, but that's about it. I consider every boat I build from here on out to be a work boat, even if the only work the boat does is put a smile on someone's face.

Alan

I'm mostly in agreement with Alan on this, except that I haven't given up on trying to obtain a flawless finish. (please note that I try, not that I actually get a flawless finish) I find it quite simple to sand down the selvage edge of the fiberglass and then fair everything with thickened epoxy or on polyester resin, "Bondo".

Regarding rudder design(s); Bolger designed some of the instant boats with "pop up" rudders and others with fixed rudders. It may be possible to simply use the rudder design from one of his boats that allow the rudder to swing upward. This isn't to say that rudders are interchangable, as the rudder does carry a part of the latteral plane and it's size and shape can't be changed without some change in the boats handling and weather helm. I would suggest that you examine other instantboat rudder designs and see if one of them might closely match, (or could closely match with a little adjustment) the rudder size and position of Surf's rudder. I suspect that small differences in rudder size/shape wouldn't make much difference in the boat's helm, but I'm not a designer.
Another thing to consider is whether the leeboard will flip up or not. If a "pop up" rudder is needed, you may also want to consider a method of allowing the leeboard to pivot up to clear obstacles? I'm not a fan of Michaleck's pivoting lee boards, but something of that nature would work.

Greetings: a few comments/thoughts on the perfect finish, shoe, brass screws, sq. holes, and pop-up rudders.

Alan's right. My Surf’s a boat! After it's used a few times, it'll be scratched, etc. and have lost that perfect finish. My Surf is going to look nice (make that "great!!"), but it's not a museum piece. I read (Jim Michalak's book?) that professional boat builders put approximately half of their time/effort/resources, etc. into getting a flawless showroom finish. I could spend today (Sunday) sanding, re-glassing the seam on the chine logs, and feathering out edges, etc., but it won't make them any stronger. Besides, I'd probably end up spending Monday and Tuesday re-sanding and re-glassing to get the edges even better. I have to draw the line somewhere.

Speaking of lines, I've just drawn a couple for the shoe. Re: installing the shoe: the options are nailing it (Instant Boats, plus a comment to the effect, “if the shoe gets ripped off, you'll only have nail holes to fill”), vs screwing it. Think I’ll do the latter w/ stainless steel screws/washers, plus plenty of sealer. When done, I’ll give it (and the skids) a couple of coats of epoxy.

Brass screws look great, but aren’t the strongest. According to the Surf's Building Directions, at least ten 2 ½” (or longer) screws are needed to attach Mast Thwart to the FOR'D Bulkhead. Since the bulkhead’s only 1/4" plywood, I’d already thickened it up (to ~3/4") w/ a piece of hardwood. So, I bought 3” brass screws, coated the edge of the mast thwart w/ thickened epoxy & clamped it to the bulkhead, pre-drilled screw holes, and then snapped-off the heads of the first two screws! After a bit of cursing, I sped off to the lumber yard and bought stainless steel (“SS”) screws. They worked great; apparently they’re much stronger than the brass ones. I also used SS screws on the mast step.

Regarding securing the Surf's mast in place: ([b]Trevor, you out there?!![b]). The square mast is inserted through two square holes – one in the bowsprit and the other in the mast thwart – before sitting in the mast step. My mast is ~2” sq. The hole in the mast thwart is slightly larger (maybe 2 1/8” sq). The holes have to be a bit larger in order to insert the mast (right?). Also, when cutting them, there’s ~5 degree rake to take into consideration. My point is, when under sail, won’t there be a lot of “play” or space for the mast to slide back and forth, or side to side? doesn't seem right. In my limited sailing experiences, the masts didn’t rattle or move. They were pretty much “fixed”. I suppose I could bring along a couple of hardwood wedges to pound in after the mast is up, but I think I’m missing something here. Any comments?

Rudder: still looking for the perfect pop-up design. I thought I’d invented it (an easy, no lead design), but I neglected to take into account the weight of ¼” thick steel plate. A major faux pas! I should have run my idea through you guys. In a nutshell, I had a welder cut/shape a piece of ¼” mild steel stock the shape of the lower 2/3’s of the Surf’s rudder. I made two cheeks (mahogany) ~the shape of the upper half of the rudder plus a middle “spacer”. So, slip the steel rudder in between the cheeks, insert ¼” pivot bolt and I’m in business! No lead weight, not with >17 lbs of steel! Problem: I don’t think I could pull it up w/o a block and tackle. Probably slice through anything it hits.

Craig

Hi Craig,

A few quick thoughts...

* As for the finish, I can speak only for myself... There are those who pride themselves in that A+++ job, and that's a good thing... There are kayak builders who might as well be making violins. Once again, that's a good thing. Sometimes, fine things receive better care. And finishing to a work boat finish should never be a slapdash sort of thing... I just make sure that when I'm done, the craft is brutally strong and as well protected from the elements as humanly possible. My attitude is that if you can see a bit of fiberglass tape seam, well then, step back a few yards. Unless my boat is so ugly that it causes blood to shoot from my eyes, I don't worry about it.

* I think we've discussed the shoe /skids before... I'd refer back to BoatManPaul's suggestions... The more I think about them the more I like them...

* Your comments on the mast thwart... You wrote: "According to the Surf's Building Directions, at least ten 2 ½” (or longer) screws are needed to attach Mast Thwart to the FOR'D Bulkhead. Since the bulkhead’s only 1/4" plywood..." Big "Hmmm..." here.

* Possible rattling mast? I'd wimp out and use wedges.

* Working with lead... I'm of two minds... If you're the type who can handle a serious project like felling a large tree, I'd say go for it... But if you're shop challenged, I'd try lead shot in a thickened epoxy slurry... I've done quite a bit of work with lead, but I used the proper preparations -- outdoors ventilation with a mask, long sleeve shirt and long pants, gloves, bone dry lead, no kids or animals around, good eye protection... Pregnant woman must stay way away! After you're done, the clothes have to be washed or thrashed, and you need a good shower...

* Pulling up the rudder... Consider this... http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/articles/kick-up/index.cfm

Alan

Hello:

Today's a new day! I plan on installing the shoe and skids. Before I mix up a batch of epoxy 9to coat the shoe/skids, I'll take another long look at the taped chine logs, and think about hitting them w/ the sander. Maybe one more run, then re-coat. We'll see. They don't look bad now.

I saw the Duckworks post, skimmed it, and quite frankly, didn't understand it. But before I head off to the hardware store (for stainless steel screws/washers), I'll give it a serious read.

This past weekend I read a lot of posts, articles, etc. on pop-up rudders, and leeboards too. For rudders at least, there are a lot of different takes - single cheeks (seemed to flimsy), double cheeks (too thick), narrow cheeks (a possibility), etc. Bolger even designed a few, but there were complaints about his. It seems that a pop-up rudder is a simple concept, so there ought to be a simple (cheap) solution, but maybe not.

Craig

This is a photo gallery of a Surf build (for your viewing pleasure).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43161432@N ... share=mail

The builder's shop/construction area is so clean it's surreal. Note the glue-up of the gunwales - the clamps all match. Also, oddly enough, one of the last things done was to install the bottom?? But, I liked the little details - countersinking screws holding chine and gunwale ends, etc. Beautiful boat; I like the white hull w/ darker trim, bowsprit, etc.

Craig

Craig,
Concerning your rudder, 1/8" steel or 10 Gage, would be stiff enough and would cut the weigh in half, or 1/4" aluminum would cut the weight by 2/3's. this might save the other parts that you've already built?

I've tried a screen door spring along with a half round groove routed into the rudder with some success. (it needs a stop to keep it from pulling too far forward) A lead sink weight has worked the best for me, although I believe that it does rotate backward a slight amount when underway at a good speed. (see Alan's precautions on pouring lead if you go this way)

Brass screws are tricky to set. they require more attention to the pilot hole size in relation to the hardness of the wood. Of course, stainless steel screws, when driven without the proper size pilot hole can have their heads wrung off also, as I've done on a few occasions. Rubbing them with soap before driving helps quite a bit to prevent this. Actually, silicon bronze screws are the proper ones for boat building, but due to their cost, I've never used them.