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Hello all,

Doug from Delaware here. New to boatbuilding. Love affair with boats my whole life, currently the skipper of a 12' inflatable yak that stows in the trunk of my car and takes me fishing and paddling in the many ponds and slow litoral rivers here on the coast. Recently installed a car top rack, bought Dynamite's book and some plywood. Going for the Brick.

The book says "if you can saw a penciled line".... well under perfect conditions. I am the worst carpenter's helper in the state of Delaware, confirmed by four carpenters who had to avail themselves of my services during the building boom back in 02-04. I do own the basics, Circular saw, Miter saws ( power and old school), table saw, jigsaw, reciprocating saws, drills, squares, cutting guides, etc., etc.

My saving grace is being safe and slow. So far have managed to cut out sides and transoms. Using Gorilla glue, and planing on using Elmer's resin and cloth. Not sure on paint yet. Want to be as environmentally correct as possible but am unable to buy $150.00 gallon low V.O.C. marine paint and primer. Any suggestions?

Also, the 52 degree cut required on the top of the bow transom. The guy at Lowes was stumped as all the saws they sell that bevel max out at 45. I am guessing that two cuts on the table saw will be required to add up to 52. Anybody?

I did do a forum search on "Brick", got many of my questions answered. These two, I may have missed if the information was here.

Buying Plans for Rueben's Nymph and a book from Dynamite this week. I have the latest "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson", any suggestions on the next best book to buy? My long range goal right now is to get good enough to make the 15' clamskiff and the Big Cat.

Thanks in advance for any help, and safe sailing to all.

Doug

Hi Doug,

* Congrats on your decision to build the Brick!

* LOL about being the worst carpenter's helper... I think I got you beat though... That's why I use epoxy. Its gap-filling properties can't be beat.

* I believe Elmer's resin is a polyester... Personally I like epoxy - I find it more forgiving... But that might just be me...

* Paint? Common exterior water-based paint. (I used both latex and marine oil... I'll stick with the exterior latex every time. See: http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Selecting_the_Right_Paint_Type-Painting-A1953.html)

* As for the 52 degrees... Try making a 38 degree cut on some scrap and see how the waste measures.

* Next book... I vote for "Instant Boats" from Dynamite! My first and still favorite.

Keep us posted, and good luck!

Alan

Hmmmmm, 38+52= 90...... _Insert_MAJOR_(DOH!)_here_ There's one that I had not thought of. Thanks much for the help, I am going to fire up the table saw tomorrow with my "crash test dummy transom" tomorrow and try that. I am not much on model building, tend to use crash test dummies of scrap bits alot though. Thinking seriously about trying to make a model nymph from the plans before the full size version though.

Well, the afternoon thunderstorms seem to be a bit delayed, so I are going out to the boatyard in the compound and try to play with the chines for a bit.

Welcome aboard Doug!

you are way ahead of the curve in that you own tools. I use rustoleum on my boats. It seems to work well, but Alan and company use a water based latex with rave reviews.

ask questionsa and post pictures!

Cheers!
Breaux

Hi Doug,

No need for "Doh!" Just keep the questions coming and let's get that boat built! There's still some summer left not to mention the fall! This should be a blast!

Alan

Mucho Gracias Alan,

I talked to one of the guys who contracts for the state taking care of our fisheries here. He opined that the advice on the paint was squarely on target and on a boat of that size, no consequence to the environment. Weather here is keeping my saws and plywood under cover ATM, will get some pics up on the next sunny day.

Doug

Although 58 + 32 = 90, I don't believe that a simple cut will get you what you are after? The scrap flipped over will have the same 32 deg angle, if cut in the horizontal plane as is usually done on a table saw. The saw needs to be set at 32 deg. and the lumber cut running verticle through the saw. This requires feather boards and and some careful set up if cut from standard 3/4" thick stock. Cut this piece from 2 X stock and then trim it down to the required dimensions, both to width and height as required.

I am gluing some of the lumber being used for chines to plywood scraps now. The guy I bought my shanty from left all kinds of lumber and other workshop oddities behind so it only costs me a few pennies in glue and the time for it to set so I can get a safe and sane method down pat before attacking my transoms.

So far, have the transoms and the sides cut out. Struggling with the chines along the bottom of the sides, but making progress with the mitre saw. Taking my time with this, would rather have a sturdy safe boat next month than something less next weekend.

I have never cut a bevel with a table saw, circular saw, or a jigsaw. Only dealt with angles making trim and molding with a mitre saw while building additions and repairing mobile homes, so I am taking all the time I need.

Really need this weather to cooperate as this is a backyard build and I know that pics are needed for this discussion.

Hi,

Thoughts...

* BoatManPaul has a point about the 32 degrees... (I just tried it on my table saw.) My bad. (And good catch BMP!) Another less tricky way to get the 58 degrees is to cut a 45 degree angle and then plane it to 58. That will be quick and less tricky than cutting on the vertical.

* Glad to hear that you're practicing on scrap. Ditto for going slow.

* As for cutting the bevel... Read and know the safety book that came with the saw. Also google on "table saw safety" etc.

* Can't help with the weather...

Looking forward to the pics,

Alan

Hi Doug,

There is another tricky thing to be aware of with bevels. (Dynamite writes about this on pg. 42 of "Build the New Instant Boats")... It has to do with cutting the bevel on a frame part and cutting a bevel on ply vs. gluing the frame on the ply and then cutting the bevel. Just be sure to follow the plans and and instructions carefully.

(I think you mentioned cutting bevels in molding... I've yet to figure out how to do that without trial and error. )

Alan

WHOOTNESS!


Figured out those dang chines on the side of the hull, the glue dries as we speak. Have a fine set of crash test dummies for my table saw. Still debating the seating arrangements. Have tomorrow to think it over while I test bevels on the crash test dummies and possibly make valiant attempt to square those transoms away. Once I get those, it's time to put the sides and bottom on, but I really want to have my place card settings sorted before I put the bottom in place.

Pondering in this direction : ripping two lengths of 2x4 to a three inch width. Cutting appropriate mitre on each end and length to run fore and aft along the inside of the hull at a height above the water line to be determined ( any input as to what height the thwart should be relative to water line for rowing a brick?). Mounted with side of board to hull, 3" width perpendicular to water line.

Drill 1/2 inch holes midway through 3" face of both boards at one foot intervals with holes amidships and walking fore and aft, fashion thwart out of 2x4x35&3/4, three boards framed together with scrap trim from cutting chines. countersink 3" 3/8 bolt in middle board of thwart on each end to line up with holes in thwart frame. Giving flexible seating, ability to add seats, remove seats and only losing 6" of cabin space.

Still leaves 30" between seat frames and I get the whole 36 inches above and below them. Theoretically, could stand up and move thwart out of way to fish from the amidship position. Room for cooler, perchance even use one of those rubbermaid storage whojamajiggies with the aerator from my minnow keeper for a livewell if'n the urge to guest appear in a local bass tournament strikes. Anybody ever tried anything like this?

Does anybody have any pics of seating arrangements in a brick or tortoise other than the fore and aft plank? Tried search, but no love. Maybe I just need to spend more time learning the search function.

Also, the book says that the seams do not require filleting. In order to practice that was thinking about filleting the seams with some bondo-glass short fiber filler we seem to have laying around the compound. Any thoughts pro or con? The can says suitable for boats, just not sure about using it re-enforce the seams.

Have some lame pics to post, perhaps will be moved to do so in the a.m.. going to experience rack attack first.

Hi Doug,

- Congrats on the chines!
- As for overall seating layout... Try laying out a blanket on the floor using a tape measure to give you a sense of the bottom of the boat. (Fold the blanket to make it right.) If you have to, pile books or whatnot for sides just to give you a feel for the best layout.
- Test bevels are great.
- I'm not exactly sure of the thwart design you are describing... Can you mock up a quick drawing like the one below and post it or a link to it? (640 x 480 should be fine.) Here's my best guess at your description? (As you can tell, it doesn't take long to make a drawing like this... )



- Seat height? It looks like many just sit on the floor... But Bolger does say that the Brick is really just a scaled up Tortoise... That would put the seat two or three inches above the waterline or resting somewhere around the tops of the transom frame bottoms. Another option is to build and launch, and then see what feels best for you and your conditions. Just be safe.
- Filleting... I always stick with epoxy and the appropriate filler.
- As for how others have handled the seating... You can google on "Bolger brick" (w/o the quotes.) There are some good pics out there.

Hope this helps... And let us know how far my drawing is off from you're idea about the seating structure. Yeah... I know... I'm way out in left field!!!

Alan

Actually, that drawing is right on target, except that the fore and aft 3" ripped supports would be fastened to the sides of the hull, taking 6" of space from the interior at the height that the boards are there would then be 30" of space between those boards.

My thinking ( which could be way off, I have no training in engineering) is that the fore and aft supports would disperse the force of the weight on the thwart along the length of the boat and both sides. A thwart whumped in amidships would, to my mind, concentrate those forces without contributing to ridigity and a fore and aft plank would put all of the strain on the portion of the transoms it rested on.

The thwarts would have bolts permanently nested in them, perhaps even countersunk heads. That way the thwart could be moved fore and aft if needed to trim the vessel.

Also thinking the arrangement would stiffen her up some, thinking on the plans for the tortoise and knock offs that refer to the decks and/or gussets as being needed to make her more rigid. I want to use gussets instead of an aft deck on the off chance that I can get her registered and mount a motor. Planning on making a hole for a mast in the foredeck, so the seating arrangement is meant to add to stability as much as it is meant to provide accommodations.



The remark that Bolger penned about her sides being too high for a good rowboat makes me not want to sit on the floor, but since I am a whopper (300lbs) don't want to get my weight up too high. Pretty sure this design is harder to capsize than the canoes I grew up on though.


Feeling very stoked this a.m.. My crash test dummies are dry and as soon as the morning dew subsides the table saw is going out to the workbench. Will report back this p.m. and will try not to be too lazy to bring the camera card to the laptop.

I have an abundance of crude drawings with hieroglyphic scribbles on them, but the scanner is toes up ATM. mebbe can git something done with the paint program this p.m.

Hi Doug,

Sounds like things are moving right along... Thoughts...

* I agree about using the 3" thwart supports as one way to stiffen things by attaching to the sides.... Are you going to use any sort of brace onder the ends of the supports to help the transoms out?

* Would one of the 3" thwart supports get in the way of the side mast step?

* Gussets would be good too.

* In case of capsize would the thwarts be able to float free? Also... Plans for flotation?

* Since you have a digital camera, you might not need to fuss with MS Paint... Just make a sketch by hand, take a pic of it, load it on your PC, resize to 480 x 640, and go from there...

* Motor? I'd use great care... I wouldn't go beyond a trolling motor... Also, you'll need a motor board.

* Center of Gravity is a huge issue... I'd be really interested to see what others say about the height of the thwart above the WL... One thing you might do is build it without your thwart system, and then test it with a some temp seating just to see what feels stable to you. Once you know that, you can go ahead with your system.

Alan

First, the dreaded 52 degree bevel specified on the bottom of the bow transom. It turned out to be a simple solution. Set the table saw bevel to 38 degrees, flip the transom over, make the cut. Tried it with a "crash test dummy" and of course eyeballed it after the cut.

Fresh out of bandsaws, so I decided to use my cordless jigsaw to trim the hull chines to the curve of the bottom. BAD MOVE!! Some rescue work with a surform and a sander looks like it might work.

Here are the sides and transoms all cut up and ready to glue and screw.



I am somewhat awed by my lack of skills, so going slowly seems to be the thing. Also scared to death of powertools. I only have them because when I worked as a carpenter's helper all the guys I worked for had old beat up unsafe tools. So I bought my own. Here is the scrap pile from "trial and error"....



The table saw in particular has my utmost respect. My uncle, a master carpenter and engineer donated a couple of fingers to prove that power tools are dangerous, no matter how good you think you are. You would have to know the man to understand how profound that statement it. He is not a thrill seeker by any measure.

Regarding the seat height, I noticed that in "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson" the "chopping tray" plans seem to have the thwart awfully high for a punt meant to be used for boat to beach. The advice to build it bare and test seems pretty sound.

EDIT _ just realized that I can mount the thwart supports 3" above WL. If I want the seat higher I can just chop up some wood and make the thwarts on top of their own extensions.... HMMMMM......

I am planning on using the plans for the "YOU KNOW WHAT" (PDR) as a loose guide and going with a center mounted mast, if the rowing punt works out. My experience is with the sunfish and sailfish, don't really get warm and fuzzy meditating on the side step.

My "adopted son" is taking a class on a new bird out in Cali. When the Air Force brings him back, planning on getting his help for beefing up the transoms. A simple brace under those thwart supports would seem in order given my greater than average bulk.

The motor is not really important to me, I rag on all my bass boat buddies about not having "men's boats"', really want management (Mrs. Doug) to get out on the water and can't see her rowing or going anywhere but very small puddles without some kind of motor. Would be using a 30lb thrust trolling motor if that.

Don't really think the thwarts would float in case of a capsize. Don't plan on any added flotation in this boat. I do plan on wearing my PFD. When and if a sail goes on, would have to revisit that for mine own peace of mind. On the other hand, if I do go with the 3" fore and aft thwart supports, foam could be cut to fit under them and one inch tanks on either side of the bolt holes. That makes me tired just thinking about it. Clearly more thought needed.

This isn't really the boat I wanted to build, I really want to make a 10'x4' brick, so this is like a 5:4 model. Given my limited experience it seemed like a good idea to build a proven design before getting creative. The mis-steps so far have provided me with a wealth of experience, but feel like I need to build a model and a nymph at a minimum before taking on my "dream brick".

All in all, it was a great day in the backyard boatyard. Hope to have it looking like a brick ready for sealing and finishing tomorrow. Qui Vivre Vera as those wily Frenchmen say...